Oils Aren't Oils

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Oils Aren't Oils

Post  HAT on Tue Apr 20, 2010 11:28 am

Hey Guys,
I recently bought my XRR and I need to change the oil and filter on it. Was wondering what oils and filters you guys all use and why you think they are the Good Gear?

PS Hi from Mount Isa
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  AURORA on Tue Apr 20, 2010 2:42 pm

That is like asking if you had to choose between a hot blonde, brunette or a redhead.

I just running clean oil. I change it after 100 miles or less. Long trips when I get my first chance.

So far I just run the non syn Honda oil.

asking for it
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  Focker on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:21 pm

Links from this forum:

oil-changes
mixing-oil
a-topic-as-old-as-vehicles
This topic is why this emoticon was added to this site > asking for it

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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  HAT on Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:26 pm

I've bought a K & N oil filter for it and thinking of using Penrite in it. just not sure whether this is a good combination.
Not sure on recommended weights
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every hundred miles!?!?

Post  Matthendurocat on Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:29 am

Thats crazy talk!!!!!!!!! I would have to carry several courts of oil and filters with me when I go on long trips!!!!!!!! Thats the craziest thing I ever heard! If its cold as hell run thin oil if its hot as hell run thick oil. I change mine every 1000 miles and it still looks ok and feels good and slippery at that point. Incidentaly I used to run honda semi syn but recently switched to mobile one 15-50 car oil. If a guy wanted to he could run wallmart supertech 10-40 and I guarantee that it wouldnt hurt it a bit.
Thats what I think at least.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  Chrimsey on Thu Apr 22, 2010 8:56 am

I either Run Honda HP4 or Castrol Activ 4 T , do not run Motor car Oil that has friction Modified Propertys as it will shag a Wet Clutch.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  HAT on Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:24 pm

Chrimsey wrote:I either Run Honda HP4 or Castrol Activ 4 T , do not run Motor car Oil that has friction Modified Propertys as it will shag a Wet Clutch.
THANKS MATE.
Have to get me some of that I think.
Was hoping for a Penrite equivalent.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  AURORA on Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Matthendurocat wrote:Thats crazy talk!!!!!!!!! I would have to carry several courts of oil and filters with me when I go on long trips!!!!!!!! Thats the craziest thing I ever heard! If its cold as hell run thin oil if its hot as hell run thick oil. I change mine every 1000 miles and it still looks ok and feels good and slippery at that point. Incidentaly I used to run honda semi syn but recently switched to mobile one 15-50 car oil. If a guy wanted to he could run wallmart supertech 10-40 and I guarantee that it wouldnt hurt it a bit. Thats what I think at least.
The Honda manual states to change the oil every 500 miles. asking for it
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  mierzwa2 on Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:02 pm

use valvoline or motul!
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  amador97 on Sun Apr 25, 2010 8:15 pm

i run Honda oils in all my Honda toys and no problems
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The Honda Manual

Post  Matthendurocat on Mon Apr 26, 2010 9:54 pm

The honda manual says to change it every 600, and I'm saying thats bullshit. If oil is slippery and has good color than it does not need changed. Just to prove my point I am going to run straight canola oil in my bike for 2500 miles, and then all of you guys will see! I know what I'm talking about! After that I am going to run peanut oil and I bet it will still be just fine. It does not matter what kind of oil you run, just as long as you over fill it a little bit. You could even run wd-40.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  modette on Fri Apr 30, 2010 7:42 pm

I run Rotella in my bikes, and in the XR650R. I ran it in the FZ1, I ran it in the Honda 599, I have even run it in my Ford Focus shrug

In the XRR I change the oil about every 1,000 miles, but I would not hesitate to let it go longer as the color still seems fine, and I do not see much of any metal pieces in the oil filter. This is actually on my list to do tomorrow.
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Sticky and the oil discussion

Post  Bump on Fri Apr 30, 2010 9:14 pm

This oil discussion should be a sticky. The reason is that many/most don't understand why our bikes require special oils-specifically different oil than cars. This discussion explains the reasons. There are many brands of oil that meet the criterion for our bike. This discussion educates without being product or company specific. It is specific as to why a very specific class of oils is necessary and why said class of oils breaks down fast without having enough time to wash the cylinder enough to become worn or polluted in appearance.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  modette on Sat May 01, 2010 5:30 pm

As long as there are no friction modifiers to make the clutch slip there will be no problems.

Sorry, I'm a Rotella fan, I know lots of people that run the stuff for 40K+ miles with no ill effects on their bikes. I say run what makes YOU happy. I used to run Mobil One car oil in my 1999 Ninja eX250 before Mobil One put in friction modifiers. It ran fine for the 15K miles I owned it. Then again I also ran car oil filters on my FZ1 and Honda 599 with a cross reference sheet...never had a problem. Again do what makes YOU feel GOOD.
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Oil is Oil

Post  Matthendurocat on Sun May 02, 2010 8:21 pm

I have run all kinds of stuff in all of my past bikes and never had any problems. In fact all of those bikes would be running perfectly today if there engines hadnt siezed up or blown or thrown rods or what ever. The point is that while all those old bikes were running it didnt matter what kind of oil I put in them, heck, one of those bikes never did have the oil changed and I never even checked it, and it ran fine until the day the motor siezed. If ya dont know, now ya know!
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That older oil post

Post  Bump on Thu May 06, 2010 5:03 am

Anyone find that old post about oil? It has the stuff in there about how the transmission gears break down the oil. Right now I can't think of the term.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  modette on Thu May 13, 2010 10:33 pm

Bump wrote:Anyone find that old post about oil? It has the stuff in there about how the transmission gears break down the oil. Right now I can't think of the term.

Shearing
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  Thumper GUY on Thu May 27, 2010 3:59 am

modette wrote:As long as there are no friction modifiers to make the clutch slip there will be no problems.

Sorry, I'm a Rotella fan, I know lots of people that run the stuff for 40K+ miles with no ill effects on their bikes. I say run what makes YOU happy. I used to run Mobil One car oil in my 1999 Ninja eX250 before Mobil One put in friction modifiers. It ran fine for the 15K miles I owned it. Then again I also ran car oil filters on my FZ1 and Honda 599 with a cross reference sheet...never had a problem. Again do what makes YOU feel GOOD.

When running the Rotella what weight do you use, 15-40?
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  OAS on Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:42 pm

modette wrote:As long as there are no friction modifiers to make the clutch slip there will be no problems.

Sorry, I'm a Rotella fan, I know lots of people that run the stuff for 40K+ miles with no ill effects on their bikes.

+1.
I used to run Honda GN4 10w40, but kept hearing good things about Rotella.
Its now even rated Jaso ma!
I use the white bottle 15w40 and Ms.Piggy likes it.
Ive got an old '82 XL500R and switched it as well. That old bike LOVES this stuff!
Right off the bat i noticed an improvement in shift quality, but then again i was using GN4 20w50 in that bike.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  BHW on Thu Oct 14, 2010 1:07 am

You can use car oil in a motorcycle. Just make sure the lower rocker of the API seal is empty. If it says "energy conserving" that means it has additives taht may cause your clutch to slip over time. Otherwise, car motor oil does exactly what it's supposed to do, protects and lubricates the engine.




I used to run Mobil 1 synthetic but the price went up a fe wyears ago so I switched to Shell Rotella synthetic. The price is right and I prefer synthetics.
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Oil is not Oil...

Post  BuRP on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:55 pm

Vegetable oils (canola, peanut, ricinus etc) are excellent lubricants.... until they get hot. Then they oxidize & turn to ashes. They lubricate better than synth's(esters) but are shortlived.
Mineral oils do not do this, at least, they do this at a waaaay higher temp. Good lubes if a proper base oil is used & doped accordingly. Most cars & machines in the world run on these.
Somewhere in the recent past a court-case was won (by Caltex I believe) due to which modified/processed mineral oils now may be called 'synthetic'. Are they? Nope, they're not. Good? Yeah, they can be better (can, yes, not are) than mineral one's, but generally speaking they're used to fetch a higher price for little gain. Exceptions exist though.
Real sysnthetic oils, i.e built molecule by molecule, are consequentially called 'full synthetic' - spot the difference. Are they better? Yeah, but careful now, we're talking about 100% full synth? If so then yes, they're bound to be. Their VI (viscosity index) is inherent to the oil instead of due to dopes, and thus one has more oil in the oil (huh? Yea, 's true). They're more temperature stable, often can withstand higher temps, and one of the main advantages (for bikers) is that the oil does not 'seek the sump' after standing for some time. It clings best to metals, and will keep a film for loooooong, this in contradiction to mineral oil who will run off. Simply put: I'd rather start my bike knowing it has real synth in.

Who actually makes oils? Only the very large brands do, the kind who can afford to employ an entire village of scientists to think-up the good stuff. Why? Simple, they have an established name to loose, so they make sure they won't.
Who are they? You know them: Shell, Esso, Agip, Mobil, Elf, BP, Caltex etc, they make the real oils. Any oil from them will perform as per on the tin, promise it will.

Oh, yeah, there's a multitude of independent refineries also who make the base oils - which they sell to whomever wants them. Who's this? You know them too, and they're not amoung the names above! These companies either shine because they excel in Marketing (which are most) or they are real experts in making oils, this by buying the correct base & mixing/doping them themselves. Sadly there's only a handful of the latter.

What I buy? Brands, only them, not Honda (marketing) or ...... whatever, just brands.
What's a good oil? Depends on what you want.
I want to start the thing with piece of mind there is oil everywhere (a full synth), and I want to ensure the engine is & stays clean (high in detergent & dispersant dopes), so that means a diesel oil.
Hence I mix 50/50 Shell Helix Ultra (full synth) & Caltex Delo 400 (diesel).
Mix????? Yeah, you can mix any engine oil you like, nothing wrong with. The resulting brew I use in my diesel car as well as all 4 stroke engines I have.

Mind, it's warm here, those living in a real cold environment may be better off, in winter, to use 100% Shell Helix Ultra - 5W40 after all.
You don't agree? Your prerogative entirely, but you won't convince me other wise ;-)


Last edited by BuRP on Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:02 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : funny editor this)
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  JimmyO23 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:09 pm

AURORA wrote:
Matthendurocat wrote:Thats crazy talk!!!!!!!!! I would have to carry several courts of oil and filters with me when I go on long trips!!!!!!!! Thats the craziest thing I ever heard! If its cold as hell run thin oil if its hot as hell run thick oil. I change mine every 1000 miles and it still looks ok and feels good and slippery at that point. Incidentaly I used to run honda semi syn but recently switched to mobile one 15-50 car oil. If a guy wanted to he could run wallmart supertech 10-40 and I guarantee that it wouldnt hurt it a bit. Thats what I think at least.
The Honda manual states to change the oil every 500 miles. asking for it

I guess some people like to save $ 6 Exclamation
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  JimmyO23 on Thu Dec 16, 2010 11:13 pm

Matthendurocat wrote:The honda manual says to change it every 600, and I'm saying thats bullshit. If oil is slippery and has good color than it does not need changed. Just to prove my point I am going to run straight canola oil in my bike for 2500 miles, and then all of you guys will see! I know what I'm talking about! After that I am going to run peanut oil and I bet it will still be just fine. It does not matter what kind of oil you run, just as long as you over fill it a little bit. You could even run wd-40.

Just don't use Extra Virgin Olive Oil......that is way too expensive. You may as well use synthetic s--t head
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Some bad advice going on here

Post  Bump on Fri Dec 17, 2010 9:27 pm

You need to use the oil Honda says to use because these engines share oil with the transmission. Also, this isn't the 1940s and 1950s when machinery was over-engineered. The cogs in the tranny place a special stress (called shear) on the oil and that requires special additives to compensate. There is no advantage to using oddball oils or mixes of oils. Most of the wear happens in 800 miles in this environment so change the oil accordingly.

There's always going to be a goof-ball out there who swears by some comic combination like rendered duck fat, ground abalone shells and Rotella. For some reason Rotella is always popular in this group of tinkerers.

You aren't gonna get any advantage out of short-cutting what Honda tells you to do. Worse, the risk if grenading your engine is serious. next time you find some guy who claims to be smarter than Honda then also go check the price of a new XR650R engine just in case you need one...

There's a long message string on here about all this. I would never buy a bike from a guy who uses non-approved oils. Never.
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Re: Oils Aren't Oils

Post  JimmyO23 on Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:35 pm

BuRP wrote:Vegetable oils (canola, peanut, ricinus etc) are excellent lubricants.... until they get hot. Then they oxidize & turn to ashes. They lubricate better than synth's(esters) but are shortlived.
Mineral oils do not do this, at least, they do this at a waaaay higher temp. Good lubes if a proper base oil is used & doped accordingly. Most cars & machines in the world run on these.
Somewhere in the recent past a court-case was won (by Caltex I believe) due to which modified/processed mineral oils now may be called 'synthetic'. Are they? Nope, they're not. Good? Yeah, they can be better (can, yes, not are) than mineral one's, but generally speaking they're used to fetch a higher price for little gain. Exceptions exist though.
Real sysnthetic oils, i.e built molecule by molecule, are consequentially called 'full synthetic' - spot the difference. Are they better? Yeah, but careful now, we're talking about 100% full synth? If so then yes, they're bound to be. Their VI (viscosity index) is inherent to the oil instead of due to dopes, and thus one has more oil in the oil (huh? Yea, 's true). They're more temperature stable, often can withstand higher temps, and one of the main advantages (for bikers) is that the oil does not 'seek the sump' after standing for some time. It clings best to metals, and will keep a film for loooooong, this in contradiction to mineral oil who will run off. Simply put: I'd rather start my bike knowing it has real synth in.

What oil do you use in your lawnmower, hedge trimmer and your edger???

Who actually makes oils? Only the very large brands do, the kind who can afford to employ an entire village of scientists to think-up the good stuff. Why? Simple, they have an established name to loose, so they make sure they won't.
Who are they? You know them: Shell, Esso, Agip, Mobil, Elf, BP, Caltex etc, they make the real oils. Any oil from them will perform as per on the tin, promise it will.

Oh, yeah, there's a multitude of independent refineries also who make the base oils - which they sell to whomever wants them. Who's this? You know them too, and they're not amoung the names above! These companies either shine because they excel in Marketing (which are most) or they are real experts in making oils, this by buying the correct base & mixing/doping them themselves. Sadly there's only a handful of the latter.

What I buy? Brands, only them, not Honda (marketing) or ...... whatever, just brands.
What's a good oil? Depends on what you want.
I want to start the thing with piece of mind there is oil everywhere (a full synth), and I want to ensure the engine is & stays clean (high in detergent & dispersant dopes), so that means a diesel oil.
Hence I mix 50/50 Shell Helix Ultra (full synth) & Caltex Delo 400 (diesel).
Mix????? Yeah, you can mix any engine oil you like, nothing wrong with. The resulting brew I use in my diesel car as well as all 4 stroke engines I have.

Mind, it's warm here, those living in a real cold environment may be better off, in winter, to use 100% Shell Helix Ultra - 5W40 after all.
You don't agree? Your prerogative entirely, but you won't convince me other wise ;-)
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