Clutch fade

View previous topic View next topic Go down

Clutch fade

Post  appleseed on Mon Feb 01, 2016 8:29 pm

Hi

Recently I have had to adjust my clutch free play a lot during rides (admittedly I am using it a lot more with the wintry muddy conditions in the swampy fens).

It gets to a point where enough slack has crept in that the clutch drags but the lever is pulled right down to the grip, I am presuming mostly due to heat as it returns to "normal" if I leave the bike to cool down. For reference The outside air temp has been between 2 and 10 degs C at most the past few rides, with the added "benefit" of the water cooling from all the water laying about. My engine temps (according to my trailtech vapor)rarely seem to go above 85, unless I am stationary for 10 minutes or so.

The clutch plates are fairly new (+- 1600 miles) EBC plates (friction and steel were replaced). There were new springs in the kit but they were marked as "heavy duty" so I left them out thinking they would make the clutch pull terribly heavy.

I haven't removed the clutch cover yet so don't know if the plates are cooked but hope they are fine as this happened when I abused the clutch climbing the ruddand rigg steps in the spring last year.

My question is guess is, is this normal (probably/hopefully not) and if not should I replace the clutch springs or do we think the clutch plates are toast?

Mine is a "year 2K" piggie (2000) and I had replaced the clutch bush when I did the plates last year.

any ideas would be appreciated.

Cheers
Andy
avatar
appleseed
XRR Jockey

Joined : 2014-10-09

Posts : 159
Location : United Kingdom
XR650R Year : 2000

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  Mauser on Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:28 pm

Not seen many posts on failing clutches over last 5 years Andy....would say the hard work your giving it is taking it's toll on the springs ?....on the ZX12R forum some people mix heavy and stock springs together opposed to either stock or heavy...might be worth a try ?.

_________________
Current ~  XR650R ~ XJR1300SP ~ ZX12-R ~ DT175MX
Previous Bikes XR250R ~ DT125R ~ GPZ1100 ~ RD350LC ~ XL125R ~ MT5
avatar
Mauser
Administrator

Joined : 2010-09-13

Posts : 1792
Location : UK
XR650R Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  appleseed on Tue Feb 02, 2016 5:30 am

Ill try the EBC ones there is only 4 of them so it cant be too heavy (Neutral )

I guess clutch springs might get a bit saggy after 16 years Smile
avatar
appleseed
XRR Jockey

Joined : 2014-10-09

Posts : 159
Location : United Kingdom
XR650R Year : 2000

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  Mauser on Tue Feb 02, 2016 7:58 am

Measure them...Smile should say in the book how long BRP smile

_________________
Current ~  XR650R ~ XJR1300SP ~ ZX12-R ~ DT175MX
Previous Bikes XR250R ~ DT125R ~ GPZ1100 ~ RD350LC ~ XL125R ~ MT5
avatar
Mauser
Administrator

Joined : 2010-09-13

Posts : 1792
Location : UK
XR650R Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  BuRP on Tue Feb 02, 2016 10:09 am

Mauser wrote:Measure them...Smile should say in the book how long BRP smile


Tsk tsk tsk Mauser, what good is knowing the length?
Measure the height Apple, don't let this guy fool you! BRP smile

'Heavy Duty' is prolly some covered way for these aftermarket plates to tell you their friction coefficient is different than the OEMs, lower perhaps - hence need more push to lock the lot.
Mind though, you didn't put in some 'fuel saving' oil did you? They exist, they even work but are to be used in engines only, not combo's where gears & clutches work.... hence they're a nono for the pig.
Get an old mattress out, lay it on it's side, open the cover and have a looksee?
As per always, a picture paints...... Bump
avatar
BuRP
XRR Monger

Joined : 2010-10-18

Posts : 1543
Location : Pretoria Souf Efrika
XR650R Year : 2007

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  Mauser on Tue Feb 02, 2016 12:39 pm

BuRP wrote:
Mauser wrote:Measure them...Smile should say in the book how long BRP smile


Tsk tsk tsk Mauser, what good is knowing the length?
Measure the height Apple, don't let this guy fool you! BRP smile

'Heavy Duty' is prolly some covered way for these aftermarket plates to tell you their friction coefficient is different than the OEMs, lower perhaps - hence need more push to lock the lot.
Mind though, you didn't put in some 'fuel saving' oil did you? They exist, they even work but are to be used in engines only, not combo's where gears & clutches work.... hence they're a nono for the pig.
Get an old mattress out, lay it on it's side, open the cover and have a looksee?
As per always, a picture paints...... Bump

Since when do you measure the height of a spring ?.....we are talking springs not plates pay attention listen up

_________________
Current ~  XR650R ~ XJR1300SP ~ ZX12-R ~ DT175MX
Previous Bikes XR250R ~ DT125R ~ GPZ1100 ~ RD350LC ~ XL125R ~ MT5
avatar
Mauser
Administrator

Joined : 2010-09-13

Posts : 1792
Location : UK
XR650R Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  appleseed on Tue Feb 02, 2016 9:20 pm

Thank guys

I have been using Motul 5000 10W-40 in it so don't think there are any of BuRP's special oil additives involved and the clutch doesn't slip at all so not sure about the strength bit in relation to the aftermarket plates.

I would think the following applies to relevant parts:
clutch plates expand - free play increases
judder springs expand - free play increases
springs "soften" or shorten - clutch slipping
spring expand - Nothing?
clutch push rod/lifter lengthens due to expansion - clutch slips

I am going to take a look inside on Saturday, for interest sake last time i was "inside" i didn't have to put it on its side though as no oil escape when i remove the clutch cover ( it was on its side stand).
avatar
appleseed
XRR Jockey

Joined : 2014-10-09

Posts : 159
Location : United Kingdom
XR650R Year : 2000

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  BuRP on Wed Feb 03, 2016 11:06 am

I've heard about guys 'soaking' the friction plates in oil before assembly, some even heating the oil.
Quite frankly I don't quite see any gains of doing this but hey, maybe there's method to it?
Yeah, oil them before assembling the stack but that's it I think.
Anyways, have a look, maybe something simple.
avatar
BuRP
XRR Monger

Joined : 2010-10-18

Posts : 1543
Location : Pretoria Souf Efrika
XR650R Year : 2007

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  appleseed on Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:43 am

fyi,

I changed to the EBC springs and the clutch cable and it seems much better (it is definitely is easier to pull the lever). I was out in the mud again last week and didn't have the same problem so can only assume that the 16 year old clutch springs (even though they were within spec with regards to length) were probably knackered.

avatar
appleseed
XRR Jockey

Joined : 2014-10-09

Posts : 159
Location : United Kingdom
XR650R Year : 2000

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  appleseed on Tue Mar 08, 2016 7:45 am

BuRP wrote:I've heard about guys 'soaking' the friction plates in oil before assembly, some even heating the oil.
Quite frankly I don't quite see any gains of doing this but hey, maybe there's method to it?
Yeah, oil them before assembling the stack but that's it I think.
Anyways, have a look, maybe something simple.

I soaked mine overnight in oil before installing them.
avatar
appleseed
XRR Jockey

Joined : 2014-10-09

Posts : 159
Location : United Kingdom
XR650R Year : 2000

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  Mauser on Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:06 am

Good result, my clutch is spot on lever easy and bites perfect no fade or judder.

_________________
Current ~  XR650R ~ XJR1300SP ~ ZX12-R ~ DT175MX
Previous Bikes XR250R ~ DT125R ~ GPZ1100 ~ RD350LC ~ XL125R ~ MT5
avatar
Mauser
Administrator

Joined : 2010-09-13

Posts : 1792
Location : UK
XR650R Year : 2002

Back to top Go down

Re: Clutch fade

Post  Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum