XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Fri Oct 09, 2015 2:36 am

Well that's all for today! I will keep the tear down on the weekend! Wait for some feed back on the swing arm removal bolt from any one who has sone this before. I will take a pick on the service manual anyway to see whay I can find.

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  Mauser on Fri Oct 09, 2015 8:05 am

I would say just pull the bolt out and replace with a dowel which you can easily push in and out, the bolt itself can be removed without taking the wheel out or doing anything with the suspension, maybe 2 bolts 1 for either side will allow you to remove the engine and keep the rear end all intact ?

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  BuRP on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:11 am

BM,

the swinger's bolt prolly won't come out as easy as you make us believe it will - but if it does good on you.
When reassembling I'd use copious amounts of copaslip (whatever name your local stuff has, anti-seize copper compound), and this you also use in/on/at the chain adjuster bolts - regularly!
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Fri Oct 09, 2015 9:25 am

I don't think so either but may be I am lucky as you said, I never ride her on rain anyway. Let see!
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:38 am

Ok guys here is the engine down and I start the valve cover removal, I got stucked with the metric allen key for the cam gear bolt, here are some pics






Last edited by bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:59 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 12:51 am






Hey Burp the swing arm screw was tight but nothing I couldn't handle with my hammer and a bit of patience hehehehe


Last edited by bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:09 pm

Well guys I couldn't wait so I went to the store and got a metric set of allen keys and keep with the tear down, so far this motor looks really clean and tight!
Please let me know if this noise side to side is normal




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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 6:38 pm

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Sun Oct 11, 2015 7:07 pm

http://vid1152.photobucket.com/albums/p495/bikerman2000/Mobile%20Uploads/trim.63DB0F84-C126-4822-9A54-00E65808A900_zpsdtsftg3c.mp4
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crank rebuild needed

Post  temporary kiwi on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:13 am

your crank has got to stage of needing a big end rebuild, plus your piston has seen better days, i can recommend an xr's only falicon rod kit, [comes with bigend rebuild bearing kit] they are durable for std size pistons running less than 11.5:1 comp ratio, but can fail if run with large oversize pistons/ high comp ratios.
the pro-x rod kit they sell is fine for std piston setups, but id advise a forged 2mm oversize piston @11:1, ive modded these mtrs alot, probably the best single mod is a stage 1 cam, then a good exhaust, then piston, carb.
im presently building a 695cc fully modded mtr, so you'll hear from me again soon

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  BuRP on Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:39 am

Bikerman,

if your cylinder is fine still - nikasil mind! - then don't bore at all, just get a new piston.
Sure, very personal advice but for a reason, Honda had the nikasil-ing done!
If you bore bigger you make the wall thinner, hence introduce more flex (especially when you put a HC piston in, hot cam etc etc)... which is not too kind on any plating (nikasil) you put on there.
Want reliable? Keep it as std as possible, and boring is far from this.

But hey, it's your bike, so please do as you please BRP smile Bump
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  JRZ7285 on Mon Oct 12, 2015 1:33 pm

BuRP wrote:Bikerman,

if your cylinder is fine still - nikasil mind! - then don't bore at all, just get a new piston.
Sure, very personal advice but for a reason, Honda had the nikasil-ing done!
If you bore bigger you make the wall thinner, hence introduce more flex (especially when you put a HC piston in, hot cam etc etc)... which is not too kind on any plating (nikasil) you put on there.
Want reliable? Keep it as std as possible, and boring is far from this.

But hey, it's your bike, so please do as you please BRP smile Bump

+1 Bikerman have a read on this! study

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Mon Oct 12, 2015 2:21 pm

Good advice sure I will follow it, will keep it standard as possible!
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big bore pistons/cylinders

Post  temporary kiwi on Tue Oct 13, 2015 12:37 am

the 2mm ov/size piston kit can be acheived while still using a nikasil bore and has a very good record for reliability, especially when the piston is ceramic/ teflon coated.
an american company can bore and recoat your cyl for very reasonable $, not sure about english versions but probably similar quality [unsure of their pricing], if your not concerned with more grunt thru out the rev-range.....???, as long as the std nikasil bore is undamaged get a new piston/rings, fix yur crank, dont forget to check your valves/seats, these get fairly hammered after a bit of use, plus replace the timing chain if @ high mileage, dont worry about the hrc camchain kit as it isnt nessesary even on highly modded brp's.
if you get the work required done to a high std, no matter the state of tune, you will have a reliable beast back in use, dont be afraid to ask for advice, probably the best thing to keep in mind is the old adage - horses for courses, dont mod a mtr unless your the type to use it, if you do, do it right

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:08 am

I found a guy named Ken oconnor from ken oconnor racing in USA, I will ask him tomorrow some question like the one Kris is telling me like kind of piston, material and set up. I will keep you posted. I could remove the flywheel today since I don't have the puller. I will stop by a bike shop tomorrow and have it removed, so I can split the engine and get to the crank
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cheapest standard honda parts in usa

Post  temporary kiwi on Tue Oct 13, 2015 10:31 am

http://www.internationalmotoparts.com/oemparts/#/l/hon/5053e975f870021c54be37bc/2002-xr650r-ac-parts, i havent found a cheaper source of honda parts yet, please let me know if you have though

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  BuRP on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:46 pm

Yo Kiwi,

let me first say you're a good dude on here, absolute zero against you - but I disagree now with you Wink
You see, anyone will have a hard time convincing me that increasing the 100mm bore by what, 2 measly millimeters, is worth it? Come on now, that extra wazzit, 28cc's is noticeable - on a 650? No way, unless you indeed start fiddling with HC piston, porting, maybe bigger valves, definitely larger & longer lift, different carb, pipe etc, the whole kaboot!
My idea is that, if you do all that but for the bigger diameter bore you'll end up with almost-same.... however with a thicker cylinder wall which flexes less hence makes the engine more reliable.
My idea yeah, by default personal, so we just agree to differ. Mind, if I were SM-racing and wanted a shot for the lead then presto, I'd slap in the biggest slug I could get, quite like you say. But, I venture far if not lonely, hence cherish the reliability this bikes comes with ex factory Bump
Different horse for different courses, that's all BRP smile
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big bore - yea or nay

Post  temporary kiwi on Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:27 am

im bemused by the thought that a mtr will be less reliable by having a slightly bigger bore, honda have actually already done this mod to their own 700cc quad version of the brp's engine togeather with a longer stroke , as to not noticing the difference....., have you back to back ridden xr'r with/without this mod?, i have, it is very noticeable, particularly in the torque increase throughout the rev range, every engine has an optimum bore to valve size ratio, and porting to suit, honda chose to [ i beleive] to run with the 100mm bore due to balancing/ vibration concerns., they also then ran a detuned cam profile as std to promote a more torquy feel to the engines output. once the 2mm ov/size piston is installed the hrc/stage 1 cam basicly optimizes the engine's output to probably what the technician's first developed prior to the marketing/ safety fella's got hold of it, but as you say horses for courses

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:06 pm

Since I didn't want to spend a $100 bucks on this pulley to be used once I asked our machine guy to make a 20mmX1.5 bolt and here is the final product. I will try it after work today and see if this will work. I found some on the internet for around 15 but shipping was around 50 lol!!

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:10 pm

So kiwi you said you had ridden our BRP with that mod, now my question is what set up do you have on yours?
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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:30 pm

I will keep tearing down my engine, I will try my new home made pulley and see if it will work after I finish my job. I need to see that bottom end asap! To see why I heard that loud noise on my engine. Even the cam chain, tensioner and all of that was really nice and tight! Yesterday I clean my valves (took all the carbon off with my wire brush) it looks like new. I am planning to put all the original parts back since nothing is worn out or broken so far, the only thing I am changing some gasket, seals and the dowel pins. I need to see if I need a new rod and new piston which Inalready saw the rings and piston and looks fine to me. I see some vertical marks on the skirt of the piston but since it disn't show on the cyl walls I don't think I need to worry about it.  Let me know your thoughs.

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Wed Oct 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Here is my cyl

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bore / piston

Post  temporary kiwi on Wed Oct 14, 2015 9:43 pm

your piston is in my opinion - toast, once the smooth shine is scuffed of the skirt it only a matter of time till it dissolves, the bore is less bad,a micrometer will show up significant wear, if your after a cheap fix, it will probably be useable with a new piston/rings, for me, id get the barrel to a nikasil shop to diamond hone it back to sweetness, glad to hear the valves look ok, the seating area of the valve is the part requiring close scrutiny, i.e for small indentations in the contact site, this causes poor low lift airflow- slower response - they can be recut to restore good airflow for minimal cost, the crank main bearings will need at least high pressure washing to see if they can be reused, best to get a reputable engineer to check them, they cost around $100us to buy and can be difficult to replace without appropriate tools, also the crank seals will likely be suspect, once the conrod is remedied [replaced], the crank cases will require very thorough cleaning, check all gearbox shaft bearings, ive noticed that 1st/2nd gears contact surfaces can get slightly chipped, this doesnt nesessarilly mean they're bad, ive seen alot of honda gears that have chips that still work as intended for years more, the oil pump rotors [inner/outer] will need examining, bits of metal tends to trash the tips [ dents] they are easily replaced, next the clutch basket, the outer fingers that hold the plates will probably need a light file to smooth them, they need to be kept square, so take it slow with the basket in a vice, if done right your clutch will feel like brand new in how it operates, the basket springs should also be checked for looseness [1st], if they are, just replace it.once all checks are completed and parts cleaned, yur ready for assembly, then you'll get to enjoy the results of your labour for years to come

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

Post  bikerman on Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:00 pm

Thanks, I am not looking for a cheap repair, I am just saying if parts still good I will re use them, but I will let a machine shop to look at my parts and let me know what is the best thing to do. If it was me I will buy new cyl head new piston and rings and rod, new valves, guides etc... If they were bad I don't mind. Do you know what I mean.
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engine rebuilding

Post  temporary kiwi on Wed Oct 14, 2015 10:13 pm

excellent, thats what more people should say, i get sick of hearing people wanting cheap engine rebuilds, i always beleive that its money well spent.
my brp is getting closer to being reassembled, final parts shipment just clearing customs, im running a 695cc ross piston @11.5:1, nikasil bore, webb high lift/duration cam, max ov/size valves, race v/springs, xr400r ignition, carillo rod, 43.5mm fcr carb, high flow airbox/plenum, shortie headers, hanging out to get back on the wee bike

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stock carb vs fcr

Post  temporary kiwi on Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:47 am

the std carb is not very good, its choke bore design is what makes the brp excessively thirsty, i only have praise for the fcr carb, they do everything a carb should, probably the mikuni flatslide item works near as good, its definetly easier to install, i had them on my old hotrodded gsxr 1100.
as to tuning, im certain that the fcr is the easiest carb to tune, the std carb is not very forgiving to tune, the idle circuit is the most annoying type carb ive ever had to tune, and there's been a fair few of them.
i struggled to get better than 90km out of a std tank of gas with it, the fcr40 i had gave around 130km at 120kph, the fcr43.5 i have now gives me 15k/litre even with large overlap camshafts which usually cause poor fuel consumption, but..., its a bitch! to fit to the brp, i did do it the hard way by lefthand converting the cable assembly, and handcrafting the velocity stack to suit,  it was all worth it though.
the fcr conversion process i posted in the forum somewhere, just found it in the mod squad, under fcr carb boring

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Re: XR650R Loud knocking after exit the HWY

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