This little piggy is not going to market

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This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Mon May 27, 2013 7:53 pm

My piggy is not feeling well, she cut out 2km from home, took 20 minutes to start then had no power and cut out again outside my house.

I took her apart and last thing I checked is the first thing I should have checked - SPARK

Spark seems very weak, what should I check? Even if I kick her over with the plug out the spark is weak. I don't have a spare plug to test at the moment.


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Blown big end

Post  Chris_w_65 on Tue May 28, 2013 2:38 pm

Ok, engine stripped. Big end seized but rest of motor is good.

Please tell me I can buy an aftermarket crank kit. Honda only sells complete crank Frustrated
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  AURORA on Tue May 28, 2013 3:41 pm

Chris_w_65 wrote:Ok, engine stripped. Big end seized but rest of motor is good.

Please tell me I can buy an aftermarket crank kit. Honda only sells complete crank Frustrated

Falicon knife edge rod.


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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Tue May 28, 2013 5:06 pm

Chris_w_65 wrote:Ok, engine stripped. Big end seized but rest of motor is good.

Please tell me I can buy an aftermarket crank kit. Honda only sells complete crank Frustrated

Maybe someone on here has an idea why my big end seized????

Changed oil and filter on Saturday - used same oil as was in before - Castrol Activa 4T 10W40 and Champion COF013 filter. Cleaned oil sieve at bottom of frame but there were no traces of metal bits or anything else in sieve, oil filter or oil. I put the oil filter in the right way with the spring at the back and put in 1.6L oil
Rode 55km on Saturday
Rode 50km Sunday
Rode 25 km Monday then crank died in a big way

Coincidence? Bad luck? I would prefer to know what caused this to avoid another EXPENSIVE misfortune.

I can get a ProX conrod kit for 220 pounds plus labour to rebuild the crank (not sure what the labour charge would be yet) or I can buy a brand new Honda crank for 385 pounds - Should I just go for the original part or would the ProX kit be better in some way?
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Tue May 28, 2013 5:13 pm

AURORA wrote:
Chris_w_65 wrote:Ok, engine stripped. Big end seized but rest of motor is good.

Please tell me I can buy an aftermarket crank kit. Honda only sells complete crank Frustrated

Falicon knife edge rod.



Thanks, I see it is $319.00 from XRsOnly

Anyone have experience with this kit? Is the XR crank a weakness that can be solved with an aftermarket kit?

Anyone able to send one over for me?
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  AURORA on Tue May 28, 2013 9:13 pm

Rob Barnum is building a trick bike for me.

Rob Barnum was unjustly bashed by a non active member of this forum on another major forum, not due to Rob's work, but how the person failed to properly break in his new motor asper witnesses. The motor built by Rob Barnum lost compression. This person then unjustly bashed Rob Barnum.

Time and money wise it is cheaper for him to build my bike than for me to build the bike. Right now my life is time critical and Rob is local!

He'll he won the Tecate BAJA 1000 solo. He knows all of the tricks and major XR650R players to the extent of what Team Honda does to their bike and win races. What they say and do are two different things.

Anyways, the Falicon knife edge rod does work. This is what is going into my motor.

Was the motor ever ran without oil?

Was the bike ever started cold then had the piss reved out of it?

Did the oil pump fail?

Was the motor constantly lugged at low speeds?

It is not common but bearings do fail.
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Tue May 28, 2013 9:23 pm

Chris,

the Falicon conrod is best, if mine ever goes I'll get it.
But, locally there's quite a few places which will re-do the crank in a proper way, however I'd get that rod for them to put in.
PM me if you dunno the names of those to contact here.

You're sure the rest of the enige is fine still? Pay special attention to the oilpumps - and you do have the service manual don't you?
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Mad Frosty on Wed May 29, 2013 12:23 am

Sorry to hear that Chris , dont blame your self , this is just on of the joys of buying second hand bike - you will never know what life it had , and sadly all the Sumo bikes i have ever seen have been riden very hard , that means something will fail eventualy . Dont worry about it , this is a good chance to rebuild the engine ( choose your parts wisely BRP smile ) and then you will have peace of mind because everything will be like new = no worries for a very long time .
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Wed May 29, 2013 5:45 am

BuRP wrote:Chris,

the Falicon conrod is best, if mine ever goes I'll get it.
But, locally there's quite a few places which will re-do the crank in a proper way, however I'd get that rod for them to put in.
PM me if you dunno the names of those to contact here.

You're sure the rest of the enige is fine still? Pay special attention to the oilpumps - and you do have the service manual don't you?

Thanks, yes I have the manual and I will be replacing the camchain and oil pump while she is open. The piston is also a bit scraped from the loose bits so I will replace that too.
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Wed May 29, 2013 1:08 pm

Check the barrel - still std with nikasil coating? If so, and undamaged, know that one needs quite special honing equipment (diamond stuff) to hone it, but 'don't' is my advise unless it is supersmooth shiny. If damaged however I'd contact NS2Strokes (Jhb), they can repair this - and I'd prefer this over having the thing sleeved, not nearly as good as 'std' condition.
If a new piston then maybe a Wossner 11:1? http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409774&page=1139
You're a SM junkie after all, however I'd invest in a TM40 too.
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Wed May 29, 2013 6:41 pm

BuRP wrote:Check the barrel - still std with nikasil coating? If so, and undamaged, know that one needs quite special honing equipment (diamond stuff) to hone it, but 'don't' is my advise unless it is supersmooth shiny. If damaged however I'd contact NS2Strokes (Jhb), they can repair this - and I'd prefer this over having the thing sleeved, not nearly as good as 'std' condition.
If a new piston then maybe a Wossner 11:1? http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=409774&page=1139
You're a SM junkie after all, however I'd invest in a TM40 too.

Hi BuRP
I have never heard of those pistons. Do you think it is better than the Wiseco?

I can get a good condition CRF pumper carb for R3000.00 and the guy will jet it for an XR (I assume as close as he can). It comes with throttle cables. He said it will fit straight in to my intake but will need some form of adapter made for the air box side. Do all CRF's use the same carb or must I get the model number from him? Is that a good price and is it what I need?

Here is the plan for my motor which apart from the seized big end and resultant scratches on the piston from the bronze debris is in overall good condition - the hone marks in my cylinder look brand new (even my Porsche Nikasil sleeves were not too bad after 30 years, just stuck in new rings) I had the cylinder looked at by my engineer but he suggested I replace the piston.
Full gasket and seal replacement
Flow head
Stage 1 Hotcam
New oil pump
New timing chain
Falicon rod unless someone can talk me into Pro X for less than half the price but only if it is as good
New 11:1 piston
Is there anything else I should be changing?

Is it worth getting those red silicone radiator hoses? I think my thermostat may be jammed open. Do I need it? South Africa is a warm country.

I have a Vapor dash, I am going to add the coolant sensor. What options are available to maybe check oil temp and pressure? Even if not a gauge but a warning light. I was thinking of adding turn signal and high beam LED warning lights next to my Vapor and if I could have some oil warning lights it would be a big plus.

Has anyone tried dry ice blasting? I wouldn't mind blasting all my engine casings to make them look new if that works. Also I would like to respray my gold engine covers. Wha tare the options? I think I saw XR650R.co.uk sells aerosol cans the right colour
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Thu May 30, 2013 11:38 am

Chris_w_65 wrote:
I have never heard of those pistons. Do you think it is better than the Wiseco?
Wiseco's cheap, one gets what you pay for - Yes!

I can get a good condition CRF pumper carb for R3000.00 and the guy will jet it for an XR (I assume as close as he can). It comes with throttle cables. He said it will fit straight in to my intake but will need some form of adapter made for the air box side. Do all CRF's use the same carb or must I get the model number from him? Is that a good price and is it what I need?
Plenty different pumpers out there, and know that, depending on the throttle-mechanism you may have to 'dent' the tank to make space. Also, adaptors indeed, an additional headache. And for what? Yeah, maybe (maybe!) you'll get a minute bit more ooph, but if you ask me, and you did, then KIS and get the TM40 - on which also there's plenty jetting info available, contrary to the the one you're contemplating, forget the abbreviation here

Here is the plan for my motor which apart from the seized big end and resultant scratches on the piston from the bronze debris is in overall good condition - the hone marks in my cylinder look brand new (even my Porsche Nikasil sleeves were not too bad after 30 years, just stuck in new rings) I had the cylinder looked at by my engineer but he suggested I replace the piston.
Full gasket and seal replacement
Flow head
Carefull here boertjie BRP smile , and what do you mean by it? This head is superb already, it is what's making horses and is reliable! Sure, by all means 'flush' the seats to the ports, and maybe 'shine' the intake (and of course clean the ex well but don't shine it!), but be careful to take real material away, unless of course you're a boffin in this and know what you will get (in which case you must come over for a braai too, I'd like to pick your brain on this Bump ). Plenty can be had from shaping/angling the seats alone (incl keeping your current grunt) but go for advice here from an expert (I'm not but it will be 3 angles)
Stage 1 Hotcam
Nice, know you'll loose the auto-decomp
New oil pump
Attaboy!
New timing chain
Falicon rod unless someone can talk me into Pro X for less than half the price but only if it is as good
You want it to last? Falicon! You're going to sell it immediately after rebuilding? Pro-X.
New 11:1 piston
I went for the Ross, 10.5:1 and ceramic coated. Not installed yet, but now I'd go for that Wossner, definitely also ceramic coated!
Is there anything else I should be changing?
Maybe, possibly, likely yeah. Yours is a 2003... TEN years old! No offense at all but that's almost an oldtimer eh? Dirtbike on top of it, no doubt abused by PO's, and now you've got it fully apart - the ideal chance to replace all what is a bearing and seal, and I promise you I'd do it. In any case definitely the CS-seal at bare minimum, but as said I'd do the lot. Clutch bushing = new type, and OK still? Basket, dents/slots in them? Go over it with a magnifying glass, it's the chance now!

Is it worth getting those red silicone radiator hoses? I think my thermostat may be jammed open. Do I need it? South Africa is a warm country.
Sorry, fallacy, fairytales, rumours - any engine NEEDS a thermostat but for a F1 (which has an electronic one!). Alu jug & piston, hellish different operating temps hence a huuuuge play when cold >> get XRsOnly thermostat, ~2C 'cooler', but do put one in! And know I've got silicon hoses also, so I'd say Yes - especially when you will (= should!) get a higher-pressure rad-cap (XRsOnly) which will give you a better thermal reserve.

I have a Vapor dash, I am going to add the coolant sensor. What options are available to maybe check oil temp and pressure? Even if not a gauge but a warning light. I was thinking of adding turn signal and high beam LED warning lights next to my Vapor and if I could have some oil warning lights it would be a big plus.
A pig comes with a good oilcooler, it's the alu frame it sits in! Also, only some DIY-ing will get you a pilot light - but why? This ain't a problem-area at all! You were just unlucky due to PO's & age, this is why I suggest the above. Fix all well and go in peace, it's a Honda after all.

Has anyone tried dry ice blasting? I wouldn't mind blasting all my engine casings to make them look new if that works. Also I would like to respray my gold engine covers. Wha tare the options? I think I saw XR650R.co.uk sells aerosol cans the right colour
Dunno, some light glass blasting will get them clean & ready for that paint. Don't powdercoat, such chips off.
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BuRP

Post  Chris_w_65 on Thu May 30, 2013 11:55 am

Thanks BuRP - all read and noted. I was leaning towards the Falicon. Wossner piston seems only $10.00 more on ebay

I am considering doing a complete strip down of the piggy while she is in bits - get all the bits and pieces replated.

Anyone stripped all the silver paint off their frame and brushed it with a Scotchbrite pad? How does it look? Aparrently if you scratch it after that you just sand down with wet $ dry and then rubb it with the Scotchbrite again. The subframe seems to have a brushed aluminium finish already.
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Thu May 30, 2013 11:57 am

In addition, check the basket's shock absorber (sits inside) - any play?
If so the rubber cushions are shot, get a new one - and no, a Hinson won't work then because it needs the cushions you have.
Also, if you're not going to replace all bearings, I'd consider it downright stupid if you'd not change at least the main bearings as these've been through hell already with all that brass. Chuck in the CS bearing too then?
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Thu May 30, 2013 6:16 pm

BuRP wrote:In addition, check the basket's shock absorber (sits inside) - any play?
If so the rubber cushions are shot, get a new one - and no, a Hinson won't work then because it needs the cushions you have.
Also, if you're not going to replace all bearings, I'd consider it downright stupid if you'd not change at least the main bearings as these've been through hell already with all that brass. Chuck in the CS bearing too then?

I had another look at the motor today
Bore looks brand new
Clutch basket has zero wear where the plates touch it, just some black markings
Rockers no wear
Cam no wear
Gear selector forks no wear

I will ask my machinist/engineer about the bearings - to me it looks like the metalflake oil that came out the big end was filtered before it went to anywhere else in the motor.

Is it the Mikuni TM40-6 that I need? I see they are only $289.00 - Hopefully Zuma doesn't make any more bad speeches and the rand go from 10:1 to 20:1
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Thu May 30, 2013 8:25 pm

Chris_w_65 wrote:
BuRP wrote:In addition, check the basket's shock absorber (sits inside) - any play?
If so the rubber cushions are shot, get a new one - and no, a Hinson won't work then because it needs the cushions you have.
Also, if you're not going to replace all bearings, I'd consider it downright stupid if you'd not change at least the main bearings as these've been through hell already with all that brass. Chuck in the CS bearing too then?

I had another look at the motor today
Bore looks brand new
Clutch basket has zero wear where the plates touch it, just some black markings
Rockers no wear
Cam no wear
Gear selector forks no wear

I will ask my machinist/engineer about the bearings - to me it looks like the metalflake oil that came out the big end was filtered before it went to anywhere else in the motor.

Is it the Mikuni TM40-6 that I need? I see they are only $289.00 - Hopefully Zuma doesn't make any more bad speeches and the rand go from 10:1 to 20:1

Ok, TM40 for an XR650R is $450 - $550 - It comes with a CNC adapter front and back and cables and jetted for XR650R

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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Fri May 31, 2013 9:01 am

Hang on, that's cables for the std bars - got risers? Maybe negotiate bit-longer one's if you'll need them, in other words pls learn from my awfully costly silly stupid thick mistakes Embarassed
That bronze comes from the washers next to the bigend - hence, during hammering into oblivia they most certainly did get into the main bearings, very much unfiltered, worse still, those bearings will have aided in milling them even finer.... hence my suggestion. Also, though maybe remote, those washers were a problem on some early bikes, if memory serves me well still up to 2002... maybe yours was late registered, or still has the sticker on the head saying 2003? Anyway, you'll now get decent one's, ditto for the oilseal of the CS. Oh, on this, the splines still fine?
Look, it is going to cost you quite a bit of money anyway, and in those cases my sentiment then is let's do it all now... if you'll be left pennyless I'll feed you and the wife/gf/njatsie over a braai, no worries - and consider yourself lucky that all looks as good as it does, it saves stacks.
One thing I did not mention, which is you'll need proper liquid gasket for stitching her up again - got that? No Midas goo pls, get the (grey) decent stuff from the agent or use Hylomar Blue (I got, welcome to borrow some).
Got tools for removing the swinger? Can borrow, the tool's name is "Kom Terug". And use waterproof grease there eh, plenty, ditto steering head. Coppaslip/copperpaste on the chain adjusters, liberally & every time you take the wheel out - yes, also on a SM, electrocorrosion's a bastid.

TM40: you know they're used on Harley's? Jets can be had easy so scratch around, BikeHospital's your first call, custom shops the next. For the adaptors you can come measure mine so you'll have a drop-in unit, and jetting wise it's a peach. Motion Pro for cables (any length), just saying.. Wink
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:33 pm

BuRP wrote:Hang on, that's cables for the std bars - got risers? Maybe negotiate bit-longer one's if you'll need them, in other words pls learn from my awfully costly silly stupid thick mistakes Embarassed
That bronze comes from the washers next to the bigend - hence, during hammering into oblivia they most certainly did get into the main bearings, very much unfiltered, worse still, those bearings will have aided in milling them even finer.... hence my suggestion. Also, though maybe remote, those washers were a problem on some early bikes, if memory serves me well still up to 2002... maybe yours was late registered, or still has the sticker on the head saying 2003? Anyway, you'll now get decent one's, ditto for the oilseal of the CS. Oh, on this, the splines still fine?
Look, it is going to cost you quite a bit of money anyway, and in those cases my sentiment then is let's do it all now... if you'll be left pennyless I'll feed you and the wife/gf/njatsie over a braai, no worries - and consider yourself lucky that all looks as good as it does, it saves stacks.
One thing I did not mention, which is you'll need proper liquid gasket for stitching her up again - got that? No Midas goo pls, get the (grey) decent stuff from the agent or use Hylomar Blue (I got, welcome to borrow some).
Got tools for removing the swinger? Can borrow, the tool's name is "Kom Terug". And use waterproof grease there eh, plenty, ditto steering head. Coppaslip/copperpaste on the chain adjusters, liberally & every time you take the wheel out - yes, also on a SM, electrocorrosion's a bastid.

TM40: you know they're used on Harley's? Jets can be had easy so scratch around, BikeHospital's your first call, custom shops the next. For the adaptors you can come measure mine so you'll have a drop-in unit, and jetting wise it's a peach. Motion Pro for cables (any length), just saying.. Wink

Damn, the guy had 2 carbs, I went on leave for a week and he sold both - Anyway, the budget is a bit tight now so next time....
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XRsOnly

Post  Chris_w_65 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:47 pm

If only they would respond to my emails

Is there anywhere else I can get a decent rod kit?

Piston and cam I can get anywhere
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:50 pm

They will respond!
Takes a week or more but they will, my cock on your block!
Come to think of that no, rather take your own, I like mine too much clown  Otherwise, re-send? I find them ominously slow email-responding wise but absolutely sterling in service otherwise, and I got even a chickentooth from them, a genuine HRC-cam! Had to wait a bit (reminding them with email etc) but I got what they told me I could, so zero complaints.
Patience is a virtue after all Wink
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:59 pm

BuRP wrote:They will respond!
Takes a week or more but they will, my cock on your block!
Come to think of that no, rather take your own, I like mine too much clown  Otherwise, re-send? I find them ominously slow email-responding wise but absolutely sterling in service otherwise, and I got even a chickentooth from them, a genuine HRC-cam! Had to wait a bit (reminding them with email etc) but I got what they told me I could, so zero complaints.
Patience is a virtue after all Wink
They just answered

Typical USA answer

Question 1 - Which do you recommend? A - B - or C?

Question 2 - Which do you recommend? D or E?

(A -B -C - D and E being products listed on their website)

Answer

"Please review our web site, it will list the parts for your bike and what is in stock" cyclops


I am leaning toward the Wiseco conrod kit, either the JE or the Wosner 11:1 piston and the Hotcams stage 1 - All available on eBay
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:00 pm

Chris_w_65 wrote:
BuRP wrote:They will respond!
Takes a week or more but they will, my cock on your block!
Come to think of that no, rather take your own, I like mine too much clown  Otherwise, re-send? I find them ominously slow email-responding wise but absolutely sterling in service otherwise, and I got even a chickentooth from them, a genuine HRC-cam! Had to wait a bit (reminding them with email etc) but I got what they told me I could, so zero complaints.
Patience is a virtue after all Wink


They just answered

Typical USA answer

Question 1 - Which do you recommend? A - B - or C?

Question 2 - Which do you recommend? D or E?

(A -B -C - D and E being products listed on their website)

Answer

"Please review our web site, it will list the parts for your bike and what is in stock" cyclops


I am leaning toward the Wiseco conrod kit, either the JE or the Wosner 11:1 piston and the Hotcams stage 1 - All available on eBay
Oh yes, there was a third question - Do you have stock of a genuine HRC cam?
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  BuRP on Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:13 pm

Stock?
You asked if they stock hen's teeth?
LOLOLOLOL, no wonder they didn't answer that BRP smile
But I can though, "No", for the funny thing of Hen's Teeth is that they sell like Hot Cakes.
Whether they can get one whilst you patiently wait is a wholly different ballgame though Cool
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xr's only- parts ordering

Post  temporary kiwi on Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:23 am

if you want xr's only to respond quickly ,:" just ring them",: they seem very slow on emails, however very helpful on the phone, ive used the ross pistons they stock, highly recommend them, lighter than wiseco+ can come ready coated,skirts &ceramic chamber coating, ive run up to 12.5:1[ hi octane fuel]up to 11.5:1 on 96oct is ok- the falicon rod kit is v/good + its also lighter than the stock item

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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

Post  Chris_w_65 on Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:32 am

temporary kiwi wrote:if you want xr's only to respond quickly ,:" just ring them",: they seem very slow on emails, however very helpful on the phone, ive used the ross pistons they stock, highly recommend them, lighter than wiseco+ can come ready coated,skirts &ceramic chamber coating, ive run up to 12.5:1[ hi octane fuel]up to 11.5:1 on 96oct is ok- the falicon rod kit is v/good + its also lighter than the stock item

Almost got my order placed at XRsOnly
Wossner 11:1, Falicon rod kit and a few other bits and pieces - thinking of adding the TM40 to my order.

Struggling to finalize my OEM parts order with HondaParts-Direct.
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Re: This little piggy is not going to market

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