XR650R Suspension Setup

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XR650R Suspension Setup

Post  Focker on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:55 am

Borynack (XR680R - member name) has some great things to say regarding the XRR's suspension. He wanted to somehow incorporate some of his feedback (From TT) onto the XR650RForum.

Here's what I came up with to help kick off the discussion. ~Focker

The following conversation and thread highlights have been adapted here:

XR680R: I thought this was a good example of the tons of PM's I get about the XR's suspension...


Borynack, I have been toying with the idea for a long time but since my fork seals need replacing I'm going to tear into them over Christmas holiday and revalve them according to your website! I was making a list of shims I may need and since I was going to order some I thought I'd go ahead and order .40mmX10mm even though you said they weren't needed but they don't have that size listed on both the sources' website's you recommended? So I guess you said not needed but I'm sure you put them there for a purpose but I really won't miss anything if I don't get them?

XR680R: I get those shims from other parts of the suspension and all they do is help fluid movement after the shim stack as it tries to return to the main fork. Remove the spacer shims from the bottom. Major not needed in your setup. More for high speed huge whoops. I am going to remove them once I update the page. The stack you are looking at is a little soft with 16 clicks out on the compression adjuster.

Secondly, I was going to shim according to your "Single Track & Super Plush" setup since I am more woods trails and a little commuting but since I was ordering I thought I'd get enough for the "racing/jumping" just because I'm curious but then I though I could just ask what qualities make it racing/jumping, (would that be MX style riding? which wouldn't be me)


XR680R: All you need is two (2) 21mmX.15mm shims with an 8mm ID, all the other shims are there. Even the Desert Setup only needs four 21mmX.15mm shims. Which is my favorite all a round setup.


Lastly, springs! I'm 180lb on a heavy day w/out boots and helmet and do some a couple of dual sport rides a year that includes gear but mostly just me. Would it be better to set up for the heaviest situation or the more common situation which is just me on the trail and the road?

XR680R: Stock springs are just perfect for you at 180 pounds dressed, you could add 3mm shims under your fork springs to help if you ride up on the tank. I get them from Ace Hardware, 3/4" tri metal super hard washers. One washer per spring. Helps the front to ride a little higher but, you need to raise the forks.

Thank you for your help. I’ll disregard the .40x10mm shims per your recommendation, but when you mentioned that the stack I was looking at was “a little soft” I believe I’m thinking I should order the 4 shims for the “Desert setup”? as an all around setup?

(I assume I would setup the shock for the same as I set up the forks, Desert setup front and rear)

And I like the idea of the washers/shim the front fork springs.
Thanks for the Direction!
Thanks,
J_T


XR680R: I like the Desert setup because it gives more room for error and I ride to get hurt loosing the definition of enjoying the ride. Stay with your first instinct....it is way to easy to change the shim stack when you change the fork fluid to not be happy. The trail riding setup is more for fire roads and single track that you don't jump or do drop off's on. Most of the video's on my sight are done with a setup close to the trail riding setup. It is as soft as stock but, much plusher. Very enjoyable just not for the guy that lives on the edge, like I said, not as much room for error.


These video's are with a setup you wanted to go with in the first place just firmer on the compression adjustment.

www.borynackvideolinks


More correspondence:

First, I’d like to say thank you, Bruce, for all your invaluable information regarding the XR650R. Currently, I’m for revalving my 2003, following your specs for the Desert Racing configuration. It just dawned on me that your instructions are for 45kg/mm springs and stock springs are 43 kg/mm. You have a double asterisk next to the “(2) .15mm x 21mm” shims and add a footnote saying “** this is for .45kg/mm springs add another .15mm X 21mm for .47kg/mm springs.”
If I weigh 180 lbs. with gear and have the stock 43 kg/mm springs, do I want to go with only 1 each .15mm X 21mm shim on the Rebound stack? In other words, 1 each .15mm x 21mm shim for 43kg/m springs, 2 each .15mm x 21mm shims for 45kg/m springs and 3 each .15mm x 21mm shims for 47kg/m springs?
Thanks in advance for your help,
John

XR680R: The .43kg/mm spring is so close that you would still use the chart. Rebound is the hardest to control and there is more then enough adjustment to stop stacking. Instead of 11 clicks out on rebound you would be at 12 clicks out depending on where on the bike you ride.

I'm 180 Without gear so I could probably use the .45's but with the season and funds I was trying to keep it budgeted so I may just try to use it as incentive to loose about 5-10 lbs!

BWB63, you drilled the valves in the holes in the fork pieces to become "like the gold valve" and for the shock your site says you have the gold valve...is there something similar you can do for the shock or is the gold valve recommended for the shock?
Thanks,
J_T

XR680R: The Gold valve I use in my shock is because it is a CR500R/XR650R hybrid. I do not use a Gold Valve or port the stock valve in the XR650R shock. it is not needed! The stock valve was designed right and made it to the show room that way. The compression valve in the forks did not make it unchanged. Honda made the ports much smaller to make a compromise for the huge difference in American riders weight. When you drillout the compression valve for the forks you can plainly see what they did.

If you are not bottoming the bike don't buy springs. As far as spring rates....... .43kg/mm fork springs and 9.3kg/mm shock spring would just about cover up to 180 pounds, that is till you start getting air or doing drop off's. Big whoops become a factor also. I was 186 with nothing on and .45kg/mm fork springs and 10kg/mm shock spring was barely enough to handle what I could push the XR650R to. I am 196 pounds now and can bottom the bike way more often than I would like....but, I am riding way more sloppy and was jumping the bike with the Teens. Losing weight is cheaper but, much more work.


Last edited by Focker on Sat Nov 21, 2009 12:06 am; edited 1 time in total

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Fluid Talk...Do I Dare Start Up One Of These Posts?

Post  Focker on Thu Dec 25, 2008 4:56 am

Has anyone use or know anything about Bel-Ray HVI Racing Suspension Fluid?

XR680R: There is quite a following against Bell Ray suspension fluids. I am one of them. This is from old school guys and it hasn't changed in recent years so I haven't. Bell Ray is known to cause the seals to leak. It will seal swell by it's mineral oil content. This makes the seals brittle and fail. Great for a little while if you have older seals that are leaking a little but not good for the long term.

Suspension fluid is just that. Shock fluid can be used in the forks and is a much better fluid. Fork fluid just fades at a lower temp. both are hydrolic fluids but, try to keep your high temp Viscosity at or above 4 if it falls far below this it is showing extreme fading.

Lets say you use Bell Ray 5wt HVI suspension fluid (the stuff that is on every motor cycle shops shelf). It will start out well over 22 wt Viscosity @ 100 degrees it is about a viscosity of about 21 and just under 7 at 212 degrees. So, that is a HUGE swing on the dampening of your shock during a desert race! If your suspension is setup for Golden spectro Ultra light. You would start out close to a Viscosity of 11 and fall to 4.4 at 212 degrees. that is a much narrower band and not very noticeable change.

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Re: XR650R Suspension Setup

Post  Focker on Thu Dec 25, 2008 7:36 am

XR680R: A few years ago the web site had a lot of shim stacks we used and I got tons of emails on "what stack is best for me" and "how do I get the shims" or "can I get the extra shims from you". Well I decided that two easy shims stacks that cover most riders and three that I am using now for real "average" guys that truly race district #37 and the SCORE Baja races. I have been real sick the last two and a half days so I have some time to finish the fork page and will do the shock page after I finish this set of forks in the shop. Being sick helps get the web page fixed.

Well there must have been 2000 typo's on the three suspension pages......I got about fifty of them and hope I didn't make any more.

http://borynack.com/XR650R/
http://borynack.com/XR650R/xr650r_forks.htm
http://borynack.com/XR650R/xr650r_shock.htm
http://borynack.com/xr650r.htm
http://borynack.com/Honda%20XR650R%2...sion%20ww1.doc
http://borynack.com/Honda%20XR650R%2...sion%20www.doc
http://dirtbike.off-road.com/dirtbik....jsp?id=266765
http://borynack.com/XR650R/Suspension/KYBSHOWA.htm
http://borynack.com/XR650R/Suspensio...siontuning.htm

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